Michael St Clair:
'Futuretalk II' transcript - Part 1
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_____________________________
Futuretalk II: A Second Conversation with Michael St Clair - Part 1
Montreux, Switzerland, May 2008(continued in Part 2)
Start of conversation
Kerry: Hi. I’m Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot. And we’re here with Michael St. Clair and Bill Ryan from Project Camelot. And Michael St. Clair and I and Bill are going to have a Futuretalk together. We’re going to be talking about 2012 and the years beyond. And we’re going to be talking about, leading up to 2012, what we might plan for, what might be in the offing.
Bill Ryan: There’s a lot going on! Many of you watching this video now will be aware that we’re at the start of changing times. And the conversation really is about: What are those changing times? How might they affect each one of us in different places? If we are aware of this and mindful of this, what actions should we be taking?We have a lot of people writing to us every week, every day, with questions about what’s happening, what’s going to happen, what’s next. And what should I do? We talked about this a little bit with our first Futuretalk with David Wilcock. We’re going to continue this conversation. We’re a couple months down the road. Michael St. Clair has got a lot to say. [laughs]
Michael St. Clair: Yes. Thank you.
K: And we’ve got a lot to share. So this is ... let’s actually say the month. This is May of 2008.
M: First degree of Gemini. Yes.
K: OK.
M: Sun in first degree of Gemini.
K: Is that today? As of today?
M: Yes. The 2lst of May 2008. First degree of Gemini.
K: Because a couple of years from now when people look at this, they’ll be saying: When was this shot?
B: When this is shot. So, one of the things that we ... Well, let me speak personally. One of the things that I really took away from Michael’s first interview here... which feels like a very long time ago. It was back in 2006...
M: Yes. A lot has happened since.
B: It really seems like a long time ago!
K: Yes.
B: ...was you were talking about “safe spaces.”
M: Yes.
B: And, speaking personally, this was the first time that I started to sit up and think ... safe spaces? I thought I was in a safe space. Maybe I’m not. I started to ask those questions. And you’ve done a lot of work, a lot of thinking since then, a lot of exploration personally.
M: Mm hm.
B: And have given a lot of thought to what is this idea of a safe... In fact, if I remember rightly from a recent email we had, you don’t even want to call it a “safe space” anymore because that’s like defensive thinking. Tell us about that.
M: Yes. Well, it’s because this was my first word and I’ve changed it to suggest more literally, to call it “Islands of Light,” or “Radiant Zones.”
B: I love that.
M: “Zones of Radiance.” Because what I’m saying is that we know that we’re coming to some times where, just things are not going to look so funny on this 3-dimensional level. But this is more to do with the mindset of the people, with the majority of the people just not being with it.
Do you remember that two years ago I told you that people will begin to lose it? They just won’t be with it, mentally, spiritually, energetically etcetera.
So you need to know that inside of these “energy depletion zones” worldwide we will be able to create zones, little small villages, cities even, or just in the woods or wherever, situations which are “safe,” in the sense that the right people come together and some sort of sanity, spiritual-mental sanity, rules. And that creates a radiant zone. So it’s not so much about...
K: It has to do with the consciousness of the people...
M: Yes. It’s not so much about... Go ahead.
K: ...that inhabit the place
M: Yes.
K ...and makes the place a safe place.
M: Yes. That’s the point I wanted to say, that my last point is that you can have tons of rice and all the goods and all the safety you want and all the safeguards and everything. We can go through what a safe place is and is not. But if you have one insane person, the whole thing falls apart, spiritually speaking.
So the place will be as safe as the people are functional.
B: Right.
M: Then of course you want to know... Probably, I shouldn’t really say that because if everybody did what I’m suggesting, it would create more mayhem than the Earth changes.
But of course it’s probably not advisable to live in the middle of a huge city because, simply, in a huge city you have a lot more dysfunctional behavior. So it’s not just about running for the hills or going into the mountains or into the woods. It’s not so much about that. It’s about having the right people together who really understand what this is about, what the next few years are about.
B: Now.
M: Yes.
B: So here’s a question. There may be some people watching this now who are saying: What are you talking about? Everything’s fine. [Michael laughs] And, you know, everything does look fine. I mean, it really looks fine.
K: Absolutely.
B: But what is all this about?
K We’re here in an idyllic space. We’re in Montreux. We’ve got a beautiful view of the lake. And this is the Hermitage. It’s a lovely hotel/guest house, whatever. It looks idyllic.
M: Yes.
K: What could be wrong?
M: It’s a place I would have. [laughs] I would have it.
B: So what’s going on?
M: No. What’s wrong? Things are not good, really, if you want to be honest. Because below the surface... and I’m not so much talking about what’s going on in politics, economy and all that. We’ll get to all that in a moment maybe.
I’m talking about that people are not quite with it. People don’t understand. most, OK, don’t. Ninety-five percent of the people, I would suggest, are not really aware of what is cooking underneath in the energetic... I’m talking now about energy, OK?
Whereas a few of us, and more and more... Thanks to the work you’re doing, more and more people are really starting to - I don’t like the word “wake up” - but they’re starting to become aware, really aware, of things that are going on.
And they’re starting to ask questions which lead to a lot of soul-searching as well as asking themselves about what is about to happen and what can we do about it, etc. Because it’s really about what we CAN do. It’s not so much about this thing, funny prophecies and problems that will be. It’s really what we actually can do.
Because there is a lot we can do to go through this time without, actually, any fear. And actually come out of it better. Because some good things will happen, are about to happen.
So you have two kinds of realities that are sort of merging. That’s the dimensional shift, and then splitting, going either way again, where you have a not-so-fine reality that has always been, ... really, you know, for many years, for a long time, dysfunctional behavior, wars, etc etc ...becoming more and more crescendo type, coming to big confrontation, big conflict and tension, etc.
I can show you later on an astrological chart how tension looks like in two years. But you have, on the other hand, very advanced people who are aware of what’s going on, and they can, with their mind, to some degree turn the tide for some people. That’s kind of how I would...
K: Well, isn’t there the idea that the indigo children can actually facilitate this? There’s a telepathic linkup that’s going to be happening with these people, as well as those who are aware, in which we are all working together to kind of bring the Earth through this time and into a better dimensional shift, to a better place...
M: Yes.
K: ...as we move into the Galactic Center and these waves of energy that are coming through. I don’t know how you describe it...
M: Yes. But...
K: ...you know, in terms of physics.
B: Yes. I would like to... I’d like to back right up here, because I want to represent the people who’ve got practical, pragmatic questions, you know. Like the conversation we were having earlier today. Should we move to Sedona? Or not? You know, what’s going to happen in America in the next few months? What’s going to happen to the water table? Is there going to be enough water there? What about the infrastructure?
M: Yes.
B: Now I want to represent the questions of those people. Although I recognize that there’s a metaphysical backdrop to all this that a lot of people watching this will also be quite interested in, I want to know on behalf of the people watching this: What actions should I take? Should I be stockpiling food? When does this all start? How long should I be prepared for? What’s the worst-case scenario? It’s about backup systems. What systems should be backed up?
And is it irresponsible to talk about this anyway because maybe we’re scaring people unnecessarily? What do you feel about...
M: Well, that’s a point. Yes, that’s the point. You see, that we have to strike a balance. We cannot cause almost fear by speaking too much about it, but on the other hand we can’t say: Oh, everything’s fine, there’s no problem, all these prophecies are ridiculous, you’re all crazy.
Because it’s not. It’s a bit of both. But I don’t think it’s a good idea to say: Oh everybody go pile up on food, because that creates more problems. Like, you have restaurants, for instance, taking too much stuff in?
K: Well, let me just...
M: Sorry. Go ahead.
K: Let’s describe the problem that may be occurring, OK? And we don’t know the... we actually don’t know the degree of those problems. But we certainly can say, first of all, we’ve got Earth changes. Right?
M: Yes. They’re happening now. China, Burma, Chile. I mean, it’s right now, ongoing. So this is a reality.
K: OK. So this may escalate? Right?
M: For sure, yes.
K: The magma in the Earth is heating up. There’s a relationship between the heating up of the sun, or the activity of the sun, and magma in the Earth causing...
M: Yes.
K: ...more activity, increased earthquakes. And as a result of that, you’re talking about getting on higher ground. This is where these kinds of preparations make sense.
M: Yes. Sure. You do not want to be on coastlines. Because clearly what happened in Burma will be happening, most probably, in many other places where weather patterns, patterns of weather, can just not be predicted; can also be, you know, induced by scalar or other weather warfare-type weaponry. I don’t even really want to go there much. But the fact...
K: But the fact is many of these are not natural.
M: Yes. But the fact is water levels will rise. Yes, water levels will rise and the effect will be a lot of cities will be under water, at least temporarily. It’s not so that the water will rise forever and stay there. I don’t think so. But it’s, due to magnetic shifts, possible that the water can even shockingly, like surprisingly, come up and lift the whole place.
What should we do about it? That’s a fair question. That’s not alarmist. That’s not causing fear. That’s just being intelligent.
K: Right.
M: Many people say this is fear-mongering, etcetera. I say: Well, wait a second. Being intelligent, knowing things ahead of time is not the same as fear. So there’s just a balance there that one has to...
K: There’s preparation to be made in case of things that might come.
M: Yes.
K: Also the increased ferocity, if you will, of the weather. Even... You know, if you live in Florida, you know you’re going to be inundated...
M: Yes. That‘s clear.
K: ...by hurricanes, whatever. Right?
M: Florida’s definitely not a good place. I live there. I have to go myself. [laughs] I know this time is coming.
B: But when we spoke two years ago, you were talking, advocating, finding a safe place. And I’m using those words because that’s the word you used.
M: Yes. That’s right. And I’m still for it. Go on.
B: Yes. What are your personal plans over the next year or so?
M: Yes.
B: What are you planning, what are you thinking of doing and why?
M: That’s a good question. Honestly I’m not sure. I’m not trying to avoid the question. I’m really not sure because it depends on certain things, what I do with certain clients who do want to build a center but more for education, dealing with indigo children, people like Boris, etc. And another part of my... I can’t really disclose exactly what I’m doing with clients because it’s their affairs.
But I’m also not sure because I want to keep flexibility. I believe we must be flexible to go this way or that way. In other words I have several plans for several possibilities.
B: OK. But what’s your model? Can you talk about it in general terms?
M: Yes. OK. The model of a radiant zone would be, basically you need a place that you own outright with patents to the land. You need land, probably ten, twenty acres, forty acres at least. You need water on that land. You need power, which you can do of course with modern, other ways of energy, off the grid. And you need food.
Those are the four things you have to have under control. Again: land, water, energy, and food. And then you must have the right people together.
So the idea is that people find to each other and group each other according to interests. And ideally they would have an expert in farming, in food, in sustainable living, a healer, a teacher. You have to have someone who understands medical, alternative medicine etc. Then you need a scientist, a technology guy, IT [information technology].
K: In other words, people with different skills coming together.
M: Yes. Yes.
K: There wouldn’t be all the same kind of people, but as a matter of fact communities need to be made up of different kinds of people.
M: That’s right. You want people who have something to give to each other, that together they can then create a new economy, a new society, really.
And then the idea is that you have two, four, five hundred such little societies dotted around the planet who ideally, by telepathy or new form of internet, can actually communicate with each other and create an economy together.
A barter economy. Just modern new way of economy, where we move away from the economy we have - which is reptilian central banking kind of finance - towards a sharing kind of...
B: [amused] Reptilian central banking? That’s a wonderful way of saying it.
M: Well, it is. That’s what it is. [Bill and Michael laughing]
B: I love it.
K: But also tell people, people that don’t know, that you have a background in banking.
M: Yes, we spoke about that last time.
K: But it’s good, because if they haven’t seen our first interview with you, if you could say a little bit about your background. I think that would be very important, to just sort of introduce where you’re coming from.
B: Yes.
M: OK. It’s simple. I studied law, didn’t finish. I didn’t get a law degree. [laughs] I then went into banking, where I did different kinds of things that showed me very clearly how the economy works, what banking is about, how investment banking works, which I find very interesting.
And I’m still in a way, or, more so than ever I am coming into investment banking. I am actually surrounded by advanced investment bankers and people who have understood that resources need to be redistributed and used in a different way to create such things like these radiant zones, these new economies, new energies, etc. Big projects.
K: But you also have a background in the Swiss army. Is this right?
M: Yes. I was a Swiss army officer. Yes. So what I learned there was, actually, how to do what we’re talking about, I mean how to run a place, how to basically manage people. It’s about how people together create a life.
And this has to be done without the government, without structures that are given by the reptilian central banking, central structure, central electricity, power, etc.
So the idea is to go independent and almost guerilla style. And that’s what we actually did in the Swiss army. It’s a sort... At the time I was in, I worked with a colonel and general who believed in this absolutely new untried way of forming an army that works on the ground with the people to defend...like a militia.
K: Mm hm.
M: And so that was a management school, essentially.
And from there into banking. I found in banking what works, how it works, and what does not work and why it doesn’t work, and what leads to the problems. So what I’m saying is that we are going to need to bring together people...
K: And you work with clients...
M: Yes. Of course.
K: ...in the banking area.
M: This is what is do mainly now. Yes. I have two banker clients and a few other clients who have actually become partners. I mean, I can disclose it. I am the investment banker, one of the investment bankers, of this concept of radiant zones. So what we’re trying to do is bring funds to projects, and project people to the funds. It sounds easy but it isn’t. It needs alchemy, chemistry, bringing the right people together, etc.
K: And then you have an incredible background in astrology.
M: Well, that was my big hobby then [laughs]. I did that since way back when I was very young. I got involved into astrology because I knew the clock of the universe can tell me more how things work. And so I got into this to the point where I am a professional at that. And I combined this. I am actually doing financial astrology. I can, with charts, show you how the economy moves, when gold goes up, down, markets move, etc. So that kind of work is what I do with clients.
B: Hm. Fascinating.K: And on top of that you started to create these amazing crystals.
M: OK. So this story here with the crystals. This is a heavy one.
B: That is an incredible thing. [Michael laughs]
K: Oh, it’s beautiful. It’s really stunning.
M: This is about orgone energy at its best. What I found out is that I have a recollection from a long, long time ago, which could have been Atlantis or something similar, where I was the master of the crystals. And we used to do - and we will in the future again - communicate through these crystals. You understand? We are made of crystals. The brain, pineal gland, etc, has crystals in it, so that Earth crystals and crystals in other star systems communicate through us.
So I did this out of interest to see what happens and how energy can be moved, if I can help make things happen for clients, etc. We’re going here into esoteric stuff, but which is just hands-on esoteric, and it does work. Clients tell me that they can move energy. That they can actually look into this...
B: OK.
M: ... and meditate and they get messages out of it and ideas. And they get inspired to do stuff. at that level.
And on another level, clearly this produces an orgone field in the place that creates stability, serenity, peace of mind, etc. At the very least, I maybe proactively can even, I mean, protect, at the minimum; and at the maximum, maybe even project energy to help people make things happen. That’s why I did that.
K: And do healing as well on these environments. And you’ve created this book that has a lot of his crystals. I mean, the combinations...
M: To me it’s art, but it is... Go ahead.
K: You’ve got stones, the power of the healing of the stones.
M: Yes.
K: You’ve got amethyst. You’ve got, you know, lapis lazuli. You’ve got, you know, quartz crystal, rose quartz. So each, the different energies.
M: Some of them also have gold in it, like this one has paleo-gemstones and gold. So I experiment with metals as well, and runes. To me it’s art, in the first place, but then I found out, well, maybe something more happens.
B: OK.
M: And it’s an ongoing experiment. I’ve done about 50 of those.
K: And this is part of the future energies that these communities may be creating for themselves.
M: Yes.
B: In summary, so your expertise is in energetics, astrology, banking... and survival. [laughs]
M: Yes. [laughs]
B: That’s an interesting skill-set.
M: Well, I was also interested in economics. How does the economy work? All is economy. Our whole society, human beings who share or cooperate, that is what makes an economy.
The problem we’re in is simply we are now, in 2008, coming towards the end of what I call this reptilian cycle of central control.
And now the resources are going to shift to what I call Nordic or ET-type resourcing-banking-economy, where people have to get their resources going and then do their own societies and their own economies. In that sense I am a visionary. And it will happen.
B: What does that mean? I mean, if I’ve a whole bunch of dollars in an American bank, do I leave it in there or do I do something else with that? This is a practical question.
M: Yes. No, no, my advice is... Well, first of all, the dollar is going to lose its value by at least another factor of half or more. And no, don’t leave it in the bank. You should really...
K: Banks are failing right now. Isn’t that right?
M: There is practically no bank that is not failing if we’re really honest. I mean, I can’t say names, because I can’t go there. But I can say that I know from an inside, really deep inside, viewpoint - just like you have with Area 51, with your ET knowledge - I have inside banking knowing to say that most banks are in very deep trouble and they’re going to fail. And they will merge and merge until there will only be maybe four, five, big groups of banking left.
So the trend is towards more centralization. So knowing that, you have to take it out, get your stuff in silver, in gold or resources, commodities. A friend of mine, an investment banker, works on commodities.
B: Hm.
K: Wow.
M: And create a new kind of economy in which you become independent of all of these things. And this is challenging. We are talking really advanced challenging stuff. Those are not easy things.
B: No.
M: But the good thing about all these changes, all these so-called Earth changes, is that very advanced new people will come forward and lead. This is human leadership at its best and it always comes about through huge challenges. So there’s actually only positives in this whole mess, you know.
B: Yes. But do you think personally, to use the cliché, that things are going to get worse before they get better? That we’re going to...
M: Yes.
B: Yes. You think so.
M: Yes. Of course. Between 2010 and 2017... I made a chart here for you. This is a typical
astrological chart...
B: Now, I don’t know a thing about astrology, but I can see that there’s something...
M: ...that shows 2010.
K: The most challenging, you know, geometry, is the square.
M: Yes. The ground square, OK?
K: A square right in the center. Is this a chart for the world?
M: This is for the whole world. OK? This shows simply... Of course this is schematic, geocentric, that doesn’t really make sense in reality. But, as a schematic, what goes on here is, we see Pluto has entered Capricorn, which means the economy of energy precisely. And so Pluto is going to totally transform everything to do with society, banking, government, education, etc.
K: And Pluto symbolizes the destructive quality.
M: Yes.
K: And the transforming and the rebirth of something.
M: And the transformation. Yes.
K: So when it hits Capricorn, which Capricorn is the sort of standardization; it’s the sort of rigidity.
M: Yes. Yes.
K: It’s everything of the past that’s already been built up till you get this real transformation coming into what everything people have been used to for so long. You’re going to have explosive changes as a result of that.
M: Yes. And you can clearly also see when you compare backwards. 1765, that time about, was last time it was in Capricorn. And then every 250 years back.
Now I’m not suggesting that because in the past we’ve seen “A, B, C,” therefore in the future we will be “Q, Y, Z.” That won’t make sense. That’s not the way we should think. But clearly you see certain patterns of what’s going on.
Now when you add Uranus in Aries, too, in the square, and on a trigger moment like the one I chose here, which is August 7, the first August week of 2010... in other words, just two years from now. We had just two years ago, now, and again in two years.
You will see 2010 begins what I would simply call a challenging, tense time where there’s a strategy of tension in the air. And conflict. I mean, let’s face it, this produces conflict and that is with Saturn in Libra opposing Uranus in which the T square, the anchor of Pluto...
Now, what’s important about this... If this was just one moment of a few weeks or a few months, one could say, you know, big deal. But this Pluto-Uranus square is actually going to MOVE in tandem (square means 90 degrees) for at least seven years. So this is a very long period.
K: So between 2010 you’re saying and 2017 we’re facing major...
M: Major changes of all kinds.
B: But does that mean that everything’s OK until then?
M: No.
B: Are you saying that things will only get difficult before... Go on.
M: Sorry. No, not really. Things are not really OK, I think. But we have time enough, enough time to get well prepared. By “prepared” I mean mentally prepared, in preparations of knowing what we’re going to deal with, of training our minds to go further to do just almost what’s impossible. And we can do the impossible. We can make it happen.
And after 2010 and up to 2017, it is quite clear that we’re coming into what one could call difficult times or unusual times at least. But that doesn’t mean that precisely during those times we can’t excel and actually come up with brand new solutions.
B: Hm.
K: Mm hm.
M: And that’s why I’m saying we should go into places of relative safety and create little economies and small societies that teach new ways of living, because the rest will simply fade away.
So as these spiritual teachers talk about the great awakening, etc., and the prophecy people talk about all the negativity, both is actually correct. Because you have then this merging of the dimension going on. So you have... You will live side-by-side with societies that are completely crazy and going on their way out of history over the next, say 10, 20 years, while others...
K: Of people who refuse to change, right?
M: Yes. That’s right.
K: Because it’s when you resist change that you are damaged the most, in a sense.
M: Yes.
K: Whereas if you look forward to change and you actually flow with it and create along with the change, then that’s where you ride out the change in sort of a better space, energetically.
M: That’s right. Yes.
K: So, it’s kind of, that’s what we’re looking forward to. We’re looking forward to major changes coming fast and fairly furious, especially 2010 and on.
M: Yes. Yes. I think, though, according to Boris, whom you have met now, there is going to be something happening next year in 2009. I don’t know really the nature of it. And, you know, we can’t really say, nor should we...
K: Right.
M: ...and I even think it just has to happen. It’s OK. Whatever has to happen cosmically is for the better, for good reasons. But there will be...
K: But there are many changes that are positive. In other words, you need the destruction to destroy what’s already been set up on the planet in order to create the new.
M: Actually, you’re right. You know, if it takes half the population to pass on to another world, then that’s OK. Because maybe the Earth needs a clean-out. That sounds maybe brutal, but it’s....
K: Or cavalier.
B: That’s an extraordinary thing to say. I mean, there are people listening to this...
M: I’m not going to beat around the bush. [Bill laughs] At this time I think we have to be realistic.
K: Yes. Whatever you ... I mean, we’re here to have a conversation with you, to hear what you feel, and you know, and also we’re going to give you our feedback to how it sounds.
M: Yes, if the Earth needs to clean itself up of the parasitic forces, then that’s what it takes. It doesn’t have to be so, if of course, overnight 7 billion people start realizing what we’re talking about and start changing their ways of life, start thinking in other ways, then all this wouldn’t be needed and probably there wouldn’t be so many Earth changes.
I know this seems not to make sense, but I know this to be true for myself. And I would like people to, like you, to look at www.wingmakers.com - the website, Wingmakers - and listen to the interview by its creator, James. It’s a two-hour interview that just came out.
K: Absolutely..
M: And he will take you through these things from his viewpoint and then you can read Wingmakers and other things. But you will see that what we’re talking about here... There is a point to what we’re saying. And that there will be good coming out of those seemingly bad changes.
B: Yes. Let me check my understanding of what I think you’re saying here, because what I think you’re saying is ... What my understanding was that James Lovelock was saying, who is the originator of the Gaia hypothesis or the Gaia metaphor, if you like, was that the Earth is a living creature...
M: Absolutely. Yes.
B: ... which kind of has the human race on it now functioning as a sort of uncontrolled parasite, with sort of uncontrolled parasitic growth, and there’s something that’s out of balance. And that what this organism is going to do is, it’s going to try and, you know, shake off the parasite at least to bring things back into balance...
M: Yes.
B: ...if it can. So you’re talking about a phase where things would come back into balance.
M: Yes.
B: And from a very, very high spiritual viewpoint you’re sort of saying: Well you know what, there may be a phase here where a lot of people are going to pass on because we can’t sustain these numbers on this planet. Is that kind of what you’re saying?
M: Yes. That’s right. That’s well summarized. Yes.
K: But by the same token, there’s a sense of the consciousness. This is where we have a choice in the matter as humanity, as, if you will, the parasite which we should not be on the Earth. Instead we should be living as, you know, the Native Americans have said and the native peoples, is with the Earth instead of against her.
M: Yes.
B: Yes.
K: But if we change our consciousness, if, you know, things like our Futuretalk here will make enough people aware, where they will wake other people up and begin to work together, taking our consciousness, unifying it in such a way that we are working for the positive, that lesser changes will be happening, less people will have to pass through this incarnation on to the next, and so on. Right?
M: That’s right. She’s right.
K: So it’s actually a choice that we have. It’s still a choice, as to how we rise through this to the future.
B: Yes. There’s this wonderful book which you’ve probably read, called The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight? [By Thom Hartmann.] Did you hear about that?
M: No.
B: It’s a wonderful metaphor. It refers... it has a double meaning. “The last hours of ancient sunlight” refers to the loss of the ancient tribal wisdom...
M: Yes.
B: ...that the Native Americans knew, that the shamans know, that the Mayans knew. That the aborigines in Australia still know.
And also, interestingly enough, “the last hours of ancient sunlight” is the end of the oil. The ancient sunlight, you see. And the, the premise in that book is that in order to get back to balance we have to rediscover the ancient knowledge and wisdom that our forefathers had.
For instance, there’s this wonderful little story that is told, you know, that the, ah, Native American tribes, they’d war with each other all the time, but they’d never wipe each other out completely because then they wouldn’t have anyone else to fight, so they had to leave some ... [laughs] It’s the same kind of principle. That sounds funny, but actually...
K: Well, hopefully we’re going to find some better lessons than that. I mean, you know, than how many we need to wipe out...
B: Yes.
K: ...and how many we need to keep alive.
B: But the point is, it’s a beautiful piece of wisdom because what they ... because even their enemies were a resource that needed to be renewable. It’s like they knew that they had to allow the way that their society functioned in the same way for their children, you know. And the same applies to the buffalo. You don’t kill them all.
K: Right.
B: Otherwise the next generation’s going to be living in a completely different way. And that’s the kind of wisdom that we’ve forgotten here.
M: That’s right. That’s right.
K: I think we’re going to actually be moving into tribal societies in a sense, smaller, you know, units.
M: That’s exactly correct. That’s what I use in my book -- tribal societies. That’s the future of our humanity. We’ll begin again, somehow from scratch, new, but still with very advanced technologies. Both is possible. And then the whole of humanity is a more advanced humanity.
James of the Wingmakers says he believes that 10 to 12 million people will come through these changes in a very advanced, aware manner, and that if we have 10, 12 million around the globe, we can start again and go much further. And I agree with him.
K: You said 10 to 12 million will make it through. And I’m just wondering, how many are there now? Because I don’t know.
M: Yes. Well, what he means, and I agree with him, is that if we have 10 to 12 million advanced people, spiritually, mentally, saying advanced, seeing what this is about and moving on and learning... because we all have to learn; we’re all challenged every day to move on... that then we will go to very good positive changes which are beautiful, where there is a brilliant future for mankind. And I feel the same.
And we will see this happen, let’s say, around 2020 to 2050. During that time. It’s just that until 2020 we have quite some cleanup going on.
So what he means by this... Or let’s put it this way: The way I see it is, if half the population is no longer here, but out of that other half we have 10, 12 million advanced ones, then we can restart. And I feel that’s what’s going to happen.
We don’t have those 10 million today. We have very few, about, say, that we are maybe a minority of a few hundred around the world will have a clue. Really.
B: Hm.
M: I mean, I know maybe 20 that I could say: OK those are friends that I could rely on and we could move the world in a different way.
B: Yes.
M: There aren’t so many who really know. And those few, you’ve met them. Those are the few that you’ve actually met. And there’s a reason why you’ve met them, you see?
B: I’d actually say there’s probably a few tens-of-thousands, but it might not be 10 million, you know. I mean, it’s a small number.
M: Yes. For now. But the idea is that it grows, you see.
B: Yes. Did you listen to our interview with George Green?
M: Absolutely. Yes. I listened to all of your interviews.
B: [laughs] In your...OK. Is this connected with what George Green refers to as “the ground crew”?
M: What we just spoke about? The ten thousand or 10 million people, you mean?
B: Yes.
M: I’m not sure where he takes it from. I know that he has... I don’t know what kind of guidance of ET kind. I know it’s extraterrestrial, but I don’t know if it’s Nordic. Mine is more in line with the Nordic-type line of thought, which is a very....
K: Pleiadian, which are Nordics.
M: I agree. That’s the same. Then we are on the same page. That’s what we mean, yes.
B: My understanding of what he means is that there’s a relatively small group of people. I mean, it may be, you know, hundreds of thousands or millions, ideally, but it’s still a very tiny proportion of the human race...
M: Yes.
B: ... who are aware enough and alert enough and prepared enough to be able to ride through the storm.
M: Sure.
B: And start things again if necessary.
M: Yes. And also educate the others.
B: Yes.
M: You see, one thing I heard in this interview with James... his webmaster who interviews him, Mark Hempel, I believe is his name...
K: Right.
M: He said the most googled phrase in China, or one of the most googled phrases in Google China is: Why are we here?
B: [surprised] Really?
M: What are we doing here? Why are we on this Earth? See, in the United States or in our western world, the most googled word would be some rock star or movie star name, whatever. In China people are actually asking [Bill laughs] What are we doing here? What for?
So, you see, it is going on. Of course there is a huge groundswell of awareness. It’s there. I’m just saying that I know maybe of 200 people that I could say: OK they’re going to be the future leaders. And those are people like Boris or like Dan Burisch in his thought, or John Lear, these kinds of people that you interview, who are people who share what they know and for good reason.
K: Mm hm.
B: They’re thinking out of the box. They’re got the courage to say what they know or what they feel. They’re not going to be put down by any criticism.
M: Yes.
B: This is what you’re talking about.
M: Yes.
B: Yes. Yes, so they’re carrying the torch in a way.
M: Yes. It takes courage.
K: You mean they’re truth-tellers. People that are risking themselves, who put themselves out there to tell the truth, are by nature going to be leaders of, sort of, the world going forward.
M: Yes. I mean by “leaders,” thought leaders, people who bring new ideas into this world. People like Tesla or Christ or Krishnamurti. These types of people. Although Krishnamurti said precisely we don’t want leaders because we don’t want followers.
And is say the same in my book – you don’t have to follow any gurus, any religions. All that is toast and history anyway.
K: Absolutely.
M: Through these changes this whole thinking will have to be changed.
I’m speaking of leaders in terms of creators, co-creators. People who lead the way in the ways we should be looking at the world and at our life.
B: Inspirational thinkers.
M: Yes.
B: Uh huh.
K: Sort of at the forefront, in a sense. The first wave of what’s coming. Because in a sense we’re all leaders. As we go forward, that’s actually going to be a trait that’s required to sort of make it through the next few, you know, the next several years.
M: That’s right. Each one has to be his or her own leader. Yes.
K: They also have to be focused on their inner... I mean, isn’t there a sense that you can’t actually go and look in a book and say: Oh this is going to be a safe place and x y z and go there. It’s actually where you must listen to what your inner guidance...
M: Absolutely.
K: ...sends to you. Because it’s going to be safe for you where you’re actually pulled magnetically to be and with the people that you’re meant to be with. If you’re going against the grain and just following some external information, this is not going to lead you actually to make it through in the best place, physically or spiritually.
M: That’s right.
B: So you’re saying it’s not so much about a whole checklist of information. It’s about the attitude.
M: Yes.
K: It’s your inner... really listening. I mean, I think that’s something James also talks about.
M: Yes.
K: Which is, it’s necessary to listen in to your own inner guidance. It’s not listening out to what other people are saying so much as going inside and getting the information and knowing how it resonates with you. If somebody tells you something or you hear something, then taking it inside and actually seeing how it resonates with you, with your heart, and how you’re able to focus it.
M: I agree. I agree. It’s not about checklists. And this is why I also refuse – categorically -- even with clients, to tell them where to go.
B: OK.
M: Because that’s way too much responsibility on me and why should I do that.
B: So it’s not like a formula.
M: No. There is no such thing as a formula. You know, there are people who will make it well even in the cities. Well, because maybe they’re meant to be there as healers or teachers, or for whatever reason. You know, each one has his or her own karma or way.
K: Or there’s serendipity.
M: Yes. You have to listen to this inside, as you said. That’s an inner stance you have to take. So you cannot take the advice from outside. That is why I am reticent of saying to people: Do this, do that, don’t do this, or don’t do that, because it’s just not right. I shouldn’t be in the position to give that kind of advice. Although I know what is OK and not OK to do, I want people to figure that out for themselves.
K: But you’re not a person who thinks that war... that we’re actually headed for World War III or IV, depending on your perspective of all of that. War with Iran, for example. That’s not where you think we’re going?
M: [hesitates] Um ... yes and no. It’s a different kind of war. Yes there will be war. The short answer is yes, we’re going to... See, we are at war, you know.
The future is the now extended and so I think there will be conflict between the US and China. It’s heating up over the Tibet issue, really, unseen. And there is conflict going to be taking place between India and Pakistan, the US and Pakistan.
When I say US, I don’t mean the American people. I mean, of course, the secret government behind the government. Because the actual government doesn’t even have a clue why they are doing what they’re doing. They’re just being whispered to by the gray command: Do this. Hit that and take that out.
K: And by gray command, you mean “the grays”?
M: I mean the gray ETs. Well, they’re not actually ETs. I mean the clones. Yes, the grays.
K: Yes.
B: Mm hm.
M: And so the answer is yes, there will be wars. And I don’t want, really, to predict “This one takes this one out” and so on. There will not be nuclear strikes of any huge kind. I do not see that happening. And I don’t think it’s a good idea to even put these thoughts out.
B: Hm.
M: I believe strongly that there are other forces who can actually disable the classic nuclear strikes.
B: Hm.
M: There will be, however, and there are ongoing, so-called “mini nukes” and neutron bombs and stuff like that. So there is a very ugly side to the conflict. And that’s going to involve China, the US, India, Pakistan, and maybe Iran to some degree.
B: Hm.
M: I think that Iran is taking a lead from the Russians, trying to behave and to just steady the situation. So, so far...
K: Ah, that’s very interesting, very positive.
M: ...they have not provoked into what they could have been provoked, you see. So I feel we have avoided some of the worst things, but there is obviously more to come.
In these years I showed you by astrology, you see very clearly that from the middle of 2010 to the beginning of 2011 is the probably most - hottest zone - where conflict will get started.
B: Hm.
M: Although it’s actually not right to say this, what I just said. It’s just... realistically, so that it would be safer to assume there is going to be conflict and we make preparations for it.
B: Hm.
M: Now, this will start, of course, over resources – water. Economic. This is all economic. It’s an economic war.
B: Mm hm.
M: And it’s happening unseen already.
K: That’s an interesting point. OK.
M: You know? So if you see in Burma, for instance, the 6th largest rice producer has just been taken out...
B: ... just been taken out ...
M: ...that means less food, more food riots, more social problems coming to the west, etc. And all these leads to more conflict. Unfortunately that’s just a cycle in which we are in, still, for another I believe, I guess, 7 to 10 years, let’s say up to 2020 when Saturn-Pluto click in position in Capricorn.
That’s when things will begin to get better. Really, strictly, that’s the zone. So we’re looking at 10, 12 years of tumultuous changes, through which we can, however, come to amazing new beginnings. We just have to be fearless and brave about this.
B: I mean, this is really big picture thinking. I don’t know of many people who are thinking about 2020. Most people’s thinking kind of stops at 2020. [laughter] I mean, a lot of people I’ve been speaking to, they don’t even know what’s going to happen next month, you know. So this is really...
M: Yes, you’re right. We should stay in the now. I’m just giving you this bigger picture because Kerry asked about wars..
B: Yes.
M: And that’s where this is going..
K: Well you’re an astrologer and this is your natural, you’ve written...
M: Yes.
K: ...this book. You know, Light-Seeds is your current compilation. You’ve got Zen of Stars ...
M: Yes. Light-Seeds is in a way the collected works. It’s Zen of Stars beefed up, advanced, updated together with ForeSeen, which is kind of a science fiction approach to a hyper-dimensional reality in which you star, by the way, you two.
K: [laughs] Your Project Camelot.
M: Project Camelot is in Light-Seeds and shows in the future what will be done. So it’s not a compilation. It’s an advanced, more up-to-date version of what I feel, based on the knowing that I have now, in May of 2008, of what is most likely to transpire.
K: Hm.
M: So as an astrologer I don’t just look at now, 2008. I want to look at what happens, say 2050, 2080, because to me that is of interest. I understand that for others this is maybe not so interesting. But it’s only by looking at the bigger moves that you can calculate backwards and kind of see where we’re at in this navigation through time/space.
K: You’re going to see the arc of change.
M: Yes.
K: And growth, hopefully.
M: Yes. And for this you can only look at the outer planets. Honestly, you can only look at Neptune and Pluto. Those two show you clearly where the big evolution of mankind’s thought process is at. And it’s with that that I can say where we are headed to.
K: Well, what about Planet X?
M: To me personally, honestly? [laughs]
K: Yes.
M: I think it’s a complete bullshit. Sorry to say.
K: No. No apology necessary.
M: I think the Vatican... I know they want ...
K: It’s actually a good thing.
M: They want their Planet X. They want it so bad.
B: Hm.
M: But it’s not going to happen.
B: You think it’s a distraction?
M: It’s an invention, is what it is.
B: An invention.
M; It’s an invention, I believe, by the Vatican, which in turn is controlled by the reptilian, literally underground. The Vatican sits on a huge space and they are insane and they come up with these stories.
Now there is a reason why there are these South Pole operations going on, but I don’t believe it’s that they are looking for Planet X. There may be orbiting, like asteroids, stuff like that. But, you know, we would know that. The European Space Agency would actually say such things. They are more advanced in that sense than NASA is or other space agencies, that there is no “body” coming to hit the Earth. That is just complete rubbish.
B: Yes.
M: What will be in Planet X is a metaphor or sort of a code name. What will take place, in my opinion, and IS taking place, is a shift of the magnetics. And this may press, somehow, on the atmosphere. To say this in a stupid way, in a simple way, it’s pushing and pulling on the outer layers of the Earth. That’s my opinion.
And the whole of the planetary system, our solar system, is moving, let’s say, through a zone, an inter-dimensional, hyper-dimensional switching of energies. It’s difficult to get the right words here for me. But you see where I’m getting to.
It’s a change of energies through which we’re moving. And IT, whatever that it is, that new energy, moves through us. So we are actually now 2008, 2009, and 2010, coming into the threshold, like.
B: Yes.
M: I call this like this - stepping through the doorway. And the thing, this new consciousness, comes through us and we go through it. And that’s a process. And that doesn’t happen on one day.
K: Right.
M: That’s a thing that takes, I believe, 10, 20 years, in reality.
K: Yes.
M: So it’s a process, you know.
B: That’s one of the most intelligent presentations of this that I’ve heard, actually. Basically it’s saying that we’re moving through this.
M: Yes.
B: The Earth is moving through this.
M: Of course.
B: It’s going to be a rough ride for the Earth and for us.
M: Yes.
B: But all of us, including the Earth, are going to make it through, but there are going to be changes because that’s what happens in a time of transition.
M: Yes.
B: And it’s nothing to do with Planet X. It’s more to do with regions of space which the whole...
M: Yes.
B: I mean, this does fit with what we’re talking...
M: And the thing we were talking, the crystals.
B: Hm.
M: Everything is energy. OK? And so everything has consciousness. I mean, these dust molecules, everything has innate consciousness. And so when all this goes through a magnetic shift... And this has happened before and will happen again. Those are just cycles, ten-thousand-year cycles.
When that happens, the populations of Earth... and other planets, right? We know there are populations on other planets. So all of us, all beings, including the ETs, the so-called ETs, Nordics, everybody, is going through this challenge or through this change.
And this is... I think this is an amazing time to be around.
(continued in Part 2)
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